BY MEN FOR MEN
Choice Is Not A Substitute For Standards
by SIEGAL
My name is Siegal. I did my Men’s Weekend in October 1995 and my Legacy Discovery November 2008. I have been team leader many times, held various Division positions (DC for a short time), led many events and have helped regionally and internationally. I have been around for a long time! I came through the Point Program where I learned about being on a men’s team, trust, standards and accountability. I have grown as a man. I have seen many men come and go, even seen men come back. I even helped with write some of the MTP. I’ve worked on production and held a managerial position for the Men’s Weekend. I have worked production and PTM’d the LD. So I have seen and been through a lot!
When Stauder asked me to write this article I was not sure what I wanted to write about. I went back and forth on a variety of subjects. I have spoken with some men on this topic through the years, some agreed, some did not. I just want you to know that this is totally MY opinion. There were times in my life I would not voice my opinions, scared of what others would think. One of the big things I learned in our organization is to speak up, not to worry about what others say, to trust my gut and, as we say, “bring it” when I feel I need to. So thank you for letting me present this to you.
Through the 16+ years, I have been here I have seen many changes, some for the good and some for the not so good. The past 5 years or so I have felt it change for the worse. Let me explain. When I first came to the Men’s Division everything was black and white. We practiced only one teaching, we knew exactly where we were. This was the training from the Men’s Weekend. In fact the division represented “the weekend without walls”. Although it was tough, it was black and white. I learned so much about myself. The great thing was that we had specific lessons to learn from. We had one way of being.
As the years progressed we realized there were other ways to teach men. So along comes the Legacy Discovery written by our men for our men. Set up as an alternate point of entry to our organization. The neat thing was that we had more than one way to teach each other. We learned about the four archetypes and another way of being. So now we had a little more variety to our organization.
So here is my concern. Along with a different way of being, I feel it has become loose. Men feel it is OK to bring in more types of lessons, (I am guilty of this too). Our standards have gone downhill, our accountability has decreased and even trust has diminished. We have let men stay on our teams too long when we should have let them go. We’ve even let men stay for a period of time who have never done one of these events! The Men’s Division is not for every man, it is tough to participate fully on a men’s team.
With this way of being, it has also divided us. Some teams are LD oriented while some teams are Weekend oriented. Many are both. But now I feel the pendulum has gone too far the other way. We have too many choices. In some ways I feel Full Monty has become too spread out, too generic. We even give men the choice of which event to attend instead of the man fully trusting us to recommend which we, the sponsors really know what is best for that man.
I first realized this when men started calling each other by their first names. Where did that come from? What happened to honoring our fathers? It took me some time, but I accepted it although it felt weird. The majority of the time I call men by their last name.
Then I started seeing how men are not being held accountable for their actions, not holding standards, men coming late to a team or division meeting and nothing is done to clean those men up. Whether we clear or not, we are still late. We really need to be cleaned up, brought back into honor with our men. Not a major deal, but then we started asking men, “what do you need?” Almost like what consequence do you want to give to yourself? When it should have come from us, his men.
Then I also started seeing men not calling men back within a specified time, men talking in meetings when another man is talking, men beginning to live the men’s division on “their terms!” Where did this come from? As I see it, it has been a slow progression to watering down our organization and who we are as men. Not differentiating us from other organizations. Almost calling our teams the “G” word!
Seeing men participating in the division and the teams on “their terms”, not being accountable and not holding standards has really begun to bother me. Currently I am a team Mentor so on our weekly calls I hear what is going on in the different teams and it does not feel good. I feel we are not training our men as good as we could. Not helping them be better men in their lives. Not being better leaders, husbands, fathers….
I have been coming back for all of these years because I want to grow as a man and I want to help other men grow. I want to learn from other men and help teach them. I needed fathering and I want to help father men. I want to show up strong “out there” where it really makes a difference.
If we are to fully participate in the Division and on our Men’s Team, “be all in” as we say, then we should do just that! If we are not teaching our new men (even our old men) specific lessons, not holding standards, not holding each other accountable that many of us learned and know works, we are doing a disservice to those men and our organization. How are we showing up in the real world? Are we going back into society as stronger men than we were before? Are we living up to our Code of Honor?
Am I the only man who feels this way or are there others of you who feel the same way? I would love to hear your comments and feedback, your thoughts on where you think Full Monty stands right now. I enjoy talking about this. How do we approach the future? How do you want to live your life? My contact information is in the roster under Poker Canyon.
I thank you men for letting me voice my opinions, my feelings and my thoughts. Without our organization, I probably would not have. I love being here, growing here. I love this organization, Full Monty and I love the men!
When Stauder asked me to write this article I was not sure what I wanted to write about. I went back and forth on a variety of subjects. I have spoken with some men on this topic through the years, some agreed, some did not. I just want you to know that this is totally MY opinion. There were times in my life I would not voice my opinions, scared of what others would think. One of the big things I learned in our organization is to speak up, not to worry about what others say, to trust my gut and, as we say, “bring it” when I feel I need to. So thank you for letting me present this to you.
Through the 16+ years, I have been here I have seen many changes, some for the good and some for the not so good. The past 5 years or so I have felt it change for the worse. Let me explain. When I first came to the Men’s Division everything was black and white. We practiced only one teaching, we knew exactly where we were. This was the training from the Men’s Weekend. In fact the division represented “the weekend without walls”. Although it was tough, it was black and white. I learned so much about myself. The great thing was that we had specific lessons to learn from. We had one way of being.
As the years progressed we realized there were other ways to teach men. So along comes the Legacy Discovery written by our men for our men. Set up as an alternate point of entry to our organization. The neat thing was that we had more than one way to teach each other. We learned about the four archetypes and another way of being. So now we had a little more variety to our organization.
So here is my concern. Along with a different way of being, I feel it has become loose. Men feel it is OK to bring in more types of lessons, (I am guilty of this too). Our standards have gone downhill, our accountability has decreased and even trust has diminished. We have let men stay on our teams too long when we should have let them go. We’ve even let men stay for a period of time who have never done one of these events! The Men’s Division is not for every man, it is tough to participate fully on a men’s team.
With this way of being, it has also divided us. Some teams are LD oriented while some teams are Weekend oriented. Many are both. But now I feel the pendulum has gone too far the other way. We have too many choices. In some ways I feel Full Monty has become too spread out, too generic. We even give men the choice of which event to attend instead of the man fully trusting us to recommend which we, the sponsors really know what is best for that man.
I first realized this when men started calling each other by their first names. Where did that come from? What happened to honoring our fathers? It took me some time, but I accepted it although it felt weird. The majority of the time I call men by their last name.
Then I started seeing how men are not being held accountable for their actions, not holding standards, men coming late to a team or division meeting and nothing is done to clean those men up. Whether we clear or not, we are still late. We really need to be cleaned up, brought back into honor with our men. Not a major deal, but then we started asking men, “what do you need?” Almost like what consequence do you want to give to yourself? When it should have come from us, his men.
Then I also started seeing men not calling men back within a specified time, men talking in meetings when another man is talking, men beginning to live the men’s division on “their terms!” Where did this come from? As I see it, it has been a slow progression to watering down our organization and who we are as men. Not differentiating us from other organizations. Almost calling our teams the “G” word!
Seeing men participating in the division and the teams on “their terms”, not being accountable and not holding standards has really begun to bother me. Currently I am a team Mentor so on our weekly calls I hear what is going on in the different teams and it does not feel good. I feel we are not training our men as good as we could. Not helping them be better men in their lives. Not being better leaders, husbands, fathers….
I have been coming back for all of these years because I want to grow as a man and I want to help other men grow. I want to learn from other men and help teach them. I needed fathering and I want to help father men. I want to show up strong “out there” where it really makes a difference.
If we are to fully participate in the Division and on our Men’s Team, “be all in” as we say, then we should do just that! If we are not teaching our new men (even our old men) specific lessons, not holding standards, not holding each other accountable that many of us learned and know works, we are doing a disservice to those men and our organization. How are we showing up in the real world? Are we going back into society as stronger men than we were before? Are we living up to our Code of Honor?
Am I the only man who feels this way or are there others of you who feel the same way? I would love to hear your comments and feedback, your thoughts on where you think Full Monty stands right now. I enjoy talking about this. How do we approach the future? How do you want to live your life? My contact information is in the roster under Poker Canyon.
I thank you men for letting me voice my opinions, my feelings and my thoughts. Without our organization, I probably would not have. I love being here, growing here. I love this organization, Full Monty and I love the men!
